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post #1 of 183 (permalink) Old 03-01-2015, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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Cool The supercharger thread...

Following Greg S's thread (larger throttle body?) I've become fixated on the supercharger idea. The TRD version was a massive failure due to shitty quality, but the concept here is to see if a reliable OEM style unit is workable. Here's what I know so far:

* Eaton M45 or M62 superchargers are the best fit for this engine, with M62 probably being better, but the M45 being slightly physically smaller.
* Gen 4/5 superchargers are significantly better than Gen 3 models, but at a somewhat higher cost.
* The xB has a "fake" pulley (just there to wrap the belt around) where the power steering pulley would be on the Camry/TC. This pulley might be removed and a supercharger mounted to take its approximate place on the back of the block.
* Front, top, and rear mounting might be possible (way too early to know).
* Intercooling is a good idea, but might be optional depending on design and needs (the TRD one didn't have an IC at all)

Parts that would be needed (speculative):

* Supercharger
* Bypass valve (to prevent overboosting)
* Mounting brackets for supercharger (must be hand made, no one that I know of makes these)
* Belt (unlikely you could fit it just right enough to use the OEM belt)
* Intake and exhaust pipes to hook up to OEM throttle body and intake
* Upgraded injectors (440cc-ish if you're aiming for numbers similar to the TRD supercharger).
* Some kind of management. It might be possible to use the TRD flash (would need a map on that SC to compare), or perhaps a SSE (split second enrichment module) would suffice. I don't think a "full on" management system is needed unless you're going for a lot of power.
* 1 step colder plugs
* Gauges (wideband AFR and boost; these are just mandatory for any boosted application)

My ideal setup:

* Max of around 5 PSI for reliability and lower costs (no full management, no upgraded engine internals, automatic transmission safe, etc.)
* No engine removal necessary for installation and maintenance
* Cost kept to a minimum (all major parts can be sourced used)
* Bracket fabrication kept simple enough that anyone can do it at home with a drill press and angle grinder.

Why do this?

* Cheap - I think this can realistically be done cheaper than any reliable turbo setup, assuming a suitable mounting can be done. Lots of others have done similar DIY builds on other cars.
* Interesting - I don't think this has been done before
* Fun - I like projects.

But superchargers suck, right?

* Yes and no. There's no question that a good turbo will outperform a supercharger on a small engine, but I'm all about the "OEM upgrades", and I don't think there are any turbo options that fall into that category (I've spent a lot of time researching). A supercharger can still be lots of fun, but it's definitely a compromise.

This is totally guesswork, and like all other things, I'm going to use this thread like my notepad. I've got some sweet ass tax return cash on the way and I think I'll throw a few hundred bucks into mocking things up, and I already have colder plugs and 440cc injectors sitting here on my desk from when I had started to take an interest in turbos. Lots more crazy notes to come and I continue research.

Last edited by Paul1114; 03-01-2015 at 11:50 PM.
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post #2 of 183 (permalink) Old 03-02-2015, 12:35 AM Thread Starter
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Some thoughts on supercharger selection:

Eaton superchargers are likely the one and only realistic option here. They come in several sizes and generations, and are only available as OEM (or via third party companies). The models being discussed here can be mounted in virtually any orientation (flat, upside down, on edge) and are generally pretty reliable as they were designed for OEM use. Generation 3, 4, and 5 models are available of each, with 4 and 5 being the most desirable.

M45/MP45

Designed for 1.0 - 2.0L applications, but used in OEM up to 3.2L. At 2.4L, the 2AZ-FE is a big of a stretch, but might be suitable. Gen 3 and 4 can be found on these vehicles:
  • 2001-2007 BMW Mini S (G4)
  • 1994-1997 Mercedes C230 (G3)
  • 2001-2004 Mercedes C230 (G3)
  • 2001-2004 Mercedes SLK 230 (G3)

Measurements (length may be reduced on some models):
  • 4.80" tall x 7.00" wide x 13.20" long (G3)
  • 4.91" tall x 6.75" wide x 16.50" long (G4)


M62/MP62

Designed for 2.0 to 4.0L engines. This is a better textbook fit for the xB, but it is physically a bit larger. Whether or not it matters will become more apparent during test fitting. Gen 3, 4, and 5 can be found on these vehicles:
  • 1994-1995 Buick Park Avenue Ultra (G3)
  • 1994-1995 Buick Riviera (G3)
  • 2005-2008 Chevy Cobalt SS Ecotech (G5)
  • 1998-2000 Mercedes C230 (G3)
  • 1998-2000 Mercedes SLK 230 (G3)
  • 2002-2004 Mercedes SLK 32 AMG Roadster (G3)
  • 1998-2002 Nissan Frontier (G4)
  • 1998-2002 Nissan Xterra (G4)
  • 1994-1995 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight LS (G3)
  • 1995-1995 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight LSS (G3)
  • 1994-1995 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight (G3)
  • 1994-1995 Pontiac Bonneville SLE, SSE, and SSEi (G3)

Measurements (length may be reduced on some models):
  • 4.90" tall x 7.80" wide x 14.75" long (G3)
  • 4.91" tall x 6.75" wide x 17.70" long (G4)
  • Unknown (G5)


Choosing a unit

Our engine needs approximately (all the calculators I've used vary a little) 300 CFM to sustain 5 PSI boost. Required supercharger speed and efficiency for 300CFM inlet flow (rough ballparks):
  • Model / Approximate supercharger speed @ 300 CFM
  • M45 (3G) / 13,000 RPM
  • M45 (4G) / 13,000 RPM
  • M62 (3G) / 11,000 RPM
  • M62 (4G) / 9,250 RPM
  • M62 (5G) / (unknown)

Eaton also has a great calculator that I'm going to start messing with soon: http://autoapps.eaton.com/Simulator/EngineDetails.aspx


Next steps:
  1. Determine ideal supercharger model
  2. Build foam/cardboard mockup and test mounting locations

Lots more crazy ramblings to come...
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post #3 of 183 (permalink) Old 03-02-2015, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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Did some more measuring and I think my initial attempt will be a top mount purely for ease of access and installation. Our engine sits pretty low in the bay, and it looks like there is plenty of height for a top mount without contacting the hood or relocating existing components.

I'll start mocking up a belt routing diagram tonight. Once that's done I'll actually create physical mockups out of thick plastic or cardboard to get a feel for spacing, and if all goes well, I'll order initial parts within the next week or so. I'm actually looking forward to fabricating the mounting plates as it's something I've never done before, though there are tons of examples online to go by.
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post #4 of 183 (permalink) Old 03-02-2015, 03:16 PM
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Hey Paul,

I'll add my info as a follow up. I'm going a slightly different route than Paul is. I'm using the M62 off a Nissan Frontier, so Gen IV.

There are a couple reasons I'm using this specific unit.

First: it is a newer unit being a Gen IV

Second: is the orientation of the inlet on it. This particular supercharger has a side inlet at the back end. Since I'll be mounting it on the backside of the engine, taking advantage of the rear 'fake' pulley.

Third: Pulley size. The Nissan unit has a smaller pulley than the general M62, 2.64" to the usual 3". This is an advantage since the stock Toyota crank pulley is undersized at 5.33", instead of a normal 6". Toyota does this to have less parasitic draw from the accessories, also why we have an electric power steering pump and the 'fake' pulley. The downside to this with a supercharger that usual 2:1 ratio between pulleys isn't there so your boost is reduced unless you get smaller pulleys to spin the S/C faster.

Admittedly what I'm doing is going to make my set-up more complicated. With this placement I'm going to have to fabricate a new intake manifold and will be placing the throttle body before the S/C doing a draw through system which has to be sized properly to get the correct air flow or it will limit the power possible. I am also going for higher boost levels, ie; 10-12psi. To that end I'm going to integrate a 65mm TB off a Toyota 4.0L V6, be running 550 cc injectors, AEM FI/C piggyback unit to control air and fuel, and building an air-to-water intercooler into the intake manifold.

Additional work I'm doing is I will be replacing the pistons and rods with Wisceo 89mm pistons, with a 9:1 compression ration. I'm having a spare block bored and honed and matched to a spare head. The head will be port and polished and be rebuilt with Brian Crower stage II cams, springs, and retainers. I will be having a spare crankshaft polished and balanced as well and all new gaskets and performance bearings on the engine internals.

As a follow up on why a supercharger. Yes you can make much more HP with a turbo, but you do it by sacrificing your bottom and mid end power and torque. I'm not going for balls to the wall race power, I will end up some where in the 280-300 crank hp range but what I will also be gaining is much of that power will be available from as low as 2000 rpm. This is being designed to be streetable power that can be used in daily driving.

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post #5 of 183 (permalink) Old 03-02-2015, 03:21 PM
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Other follow up thoughts.

Paul, most of the Eaton units come with internal by-passes that are vacuum actuated. They are built this way to preserve fuel economy and reduce the parasitic draw at idle and partial throttle use. If you get one that does not have the by-pass on it a company called ZZ Performance sells them.

I would also stay away from the MB units as they are clutched and significantly different than the others.

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post #6 of 183 (permalink) Old 03-02-2015, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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Great info! You're absolutely going for a higher quality build than I am, no question.

I've been reading a lot today and I think a recirculating draw through method is going to be necessary for my setup. The throttle body will need to be moved before the supercharger (though I still plan on keeping the stock intake manifold) which presents its own unique challenges; I'll probably buy a second TB and just gut and seal it to use as a coupler where the original TB is mounted.

Good point on the MB units; I was reading up on the electronic clutch and frankly it sounds like an unnecessary point of failure, plus it seems like it's nearly impossible to swap pulleys on them.

One thing I'm considering is drive method; I'm running the numbers on using a double alternator pulley and powering the SC with a small belt from that ("mustang style"). Granted there are drawbacks, but this would make routing a ton easier and keep the engine running if the SC has to be temporarily disabled or the belt fails.

Last edited by Paul1114; 03-02-2015 at 04:27 PM.
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post #7 of 183 (permalink) Old 03-02-2015, 05:45 PM
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While the draw through does require better calibration to work properly it is a better setup. This is precisely why I went with that set-up as well. At the boost levels you are looking at the stock 55mm will be near it's limits but I think it'll work for it.

If you need different pulley sizes to do it that way have a look at Pulley Boys - Supercharger Pulleys & Car Parts
They make different size pulleys for most of the Eaton units.

Also if you do decide to use a second TB for the intake manifold let me know I have a spare one sitting around from when I port n polished mine.

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post #8 of 183 (permalink) Old 03-02-2015, 05:46 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, I may take you up on that offer; going to see if I can fabricate some flanges myself first (this is new totally territory for me) and using a second TB is a backup option.

I did some more research and in terms of component order, here's what I'm thinking:

Air filter/box > MAF sensor > throttle body > SC in > SC out > intercooler > stock intake manifold

I took more measurements and the stock header is absolutely going to be limiting on a top mount; I think I may have to go to an aftermarket header just to get the clearance needed. I'll have to mock up mounts and cardboard SC based on the measurements (or get the actual unit) before I can be sure.

Last edited by Paul1114; 03-02-2015 at 05:48 PM.
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post #9 of 183 (permalink) Old 03-02-2015, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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Remeasured yet again, and an aftermarket header will be critical for having enough clearance on a front mount. The height is insanely different. I'll want to figure out some kind of heat shield, but I'm going to pick one out and buy it. Even if I don't follow through with the SC build in the end, it's an "upgrade" I suppose. Check out the comparison in this pic:

edit: see next post, working on 'shopping up a comparison pic


Also, I went through the TRD installation manual and here are the mount points they apparently deem to be "strong" enough.. I'll probably also tap one of the metal side motor mount studs:


Last edited by Paul1114; 03-02-2015 at 06:47 PM.
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post #10 of 183 (permalink) Old 03-02-2015, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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This is the best comparison I could do, but you can see the difference, and that doesn't even account for how large the heat shield is on the OEM unit:



Source: My ebay review thread! (not mine, just the name of the thread)
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