Car and Driver Aug...
Did any of you guys read the article by aaron Robinsson about our Scions ? Not very pretty 
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Page 30...1 - 20 of 48 Posts
Well he is entitled to his opinion.
I would agree that Toyota has mishandled the Scion brand, as well as completely mishandled the xB. The 2nd Gen xB is an amazing mix of performance, practical interior size, and compact exterior. We all know that, while most don't.
It SHOULD be a huge selling vehicle with a huge market. In fact, for my family of 5, with 2 just under 10 and one 2, the B is our PREFERRED travel vehicle, OVER the wife's Dodge Caravan. For a fam of 4, it's an ideal family vehicle!
Yet, most in that segment wouldn't even THINK of looking at one unless one of us TELLS them to do so.
The Scion brand itself is so mishandled that some of my OFFICIAL documentation says "Toyota xB," some says "Toyota Scion," and only SOME says "Scion xB." Toyota can't even systematically categorize the brand as a distinct brand within it's own bureaucracy.
Also, there are leadership issues WITHIN the Scion brand itself, which affects the regional marketing and "mythos" of the brand. For example, Mike Kennedy was head in the Southeast and did a GREAT job, while his replacement doesn't do nearly as well. Accordingly, the Scion brand has suffered notably in the region as a result.
I would agree that Toyota has dropped the ball on the Scion brand AND the xB. That said, it seems that Toyota is presently readjusting their brands with Lexus as the "high end," "Toyota" as the common, simple (plain) models, and Scion being the "odd" and "interesting" models.
I hope the interesting models continue and manages to get Scion brand managers and leadership who understand what they have and make the most of it.
It SHOULD be a huge selling vehicle with a huge market. In fact, for my family of 5, with 2 just under 10 and one 2, the B is our PREFERRED travel vehicle, OVER the wife's Dodge Caravan. For a fam of 4, it's an ideal family vehicle!
Yet, most in that segment wouldn't even THINK of looking at one unless one of us TELLS them to do so.
The Scion brand itself is so mishandled that some of my OFFICIAL documentation says "Toyota xB," some says "Toyota Scion," and only SOME says "Scion xB." Toyota can't even systematically categorize the brand as a distinct brand within it's own bureaucracy.
Also, there are leadership issues WITHIN the Scion brand itself, which affects the regional marketing and "mythos" of the brand. For example, Mike Kennedy was head in the Southeast and did a GREAT job, while his replacement doesn't do nearly as well. Accordingly, the Scion brand has suffered notably in the region as a result.
I would agree that Toyota has dropped the ball on the Scion brand AND the xB. That said, it seems that Toyota is presently readjusting their brands with Lexus as the "high end," "Toyota" as the common, simple (plain) models, and Scion being the "odd" and "interesting" models.
I hope the interesting models continue and manages to get Scion brand managers and leadership who understand what they have and make the most of it.
CD
Thanks for link .....Gotta learn how to do that
Thanks for link .....Gotta learn how to do that
TartanJack, I'm with you on the mishandling of the brand and our xB, but I find myself completely agreeing the the C&D author here. It's not just that Toyota mishandled their new brand; it's that the brand has no substance, no mission, even no ambition.
I'm sorry, but the balanced performance and sreaming-bargain price of our xB was just a happy accident, a fluke brought on by the implementation of the Camry's 4-cylinder in a re-skinned Toyota Matrix. We were lucky! But Scion itself is a meaningless brand, much like Saturn.
At the end of page 2, Robinson suggests "Scion" should be for cheap, basic Toyotas only, and I completely agree. Why buy an xB and not a Matrix? Or an xD and not a Yaris? Or a tC vs a Civic Si? An iQ vs a Smart ForTwo? $2000 cheaper pricetags and more interior space, in exchange for cheaper cabin quality. But instead Scion tried all this guerrilla marketing with SEMA tuner cars and club concerts. Wouldn't tuners rather tune a Lancer Evo or Civic Si?
Can any of us disagree? I cannot! What is Scion? Is it tuner cars or practical hatchbacks? Is it cheap college cars or a rear-wheel-drive import coupe? Is it the iQ microcar or the hulking SUV-like xB? Is it young people or old people? Nobody knows! Not even Toyota itself.quoted from Aaron Robinson of C&D said:Scion is a brand conceived in a focus group.... It can claim no pedigree, no history. ...When you buy a Scion, you buy into something akin to a second-year MBA’s class project on ways to penetrate the youth market....
I'm sorry, but the balanced performance and sreaming-bargain price of our xB was just a happy accident, a fluke brought on by the implementation of the Camry's 4-cylinder in a re-skinned Toyota Matrix. We were lucky! But Scion itself is a meaningless brand, much like Saturn.
At the end of page 2, Robinson suggests "Scion" should be for cheap, basic Toyotas only, and I completely agree. Why buy an xB and not a Matrix? Or an xD and not a Yaris? Or a tC vs a Civic Si? An iQ vs a Smart ForTwo? $2000 cheaper pricetags and more interior space, in exchange for cheaper cabin quality. But instead Scion tried all this guerrilla marketing with SEMA tuner cars and club concerts. Wouldn't tuners rather tune a Lancer Evo or Civic Si?
I guess I just agreed with you, but only the xD has the fuel economy to compete, and the Hondia Fit is a better car. I still blame Toyota's refusal to give the xB the 6-speed transmissions from the tC. Why should a Corolla Wagon get just 22/28MPG?...most in [the family car] segment wouldn't even THINK of looking at one unless one of us TELLS them to do so.
I thought that the Scion group was brought about because Toyota wanted to attract a younger buyer. Toyota was looked at as "Your father's Oldsmobile" since it's been around for a very long time, and to attract young buyers you needed to make them feel that they are buying something their parents wouldn't.
This is just my opinion, but if you are talking about your "kids" fitting nicely in your Scion then it's not what will attract a 20 something and Scion missed their mark.
The xB, nice for me to get in and out of, nice room, good visibility driving, but I'm not what Scion marketing was looking for in a customer.
Just look at the colors they offer! A younger buyer wants some flashy colors, not white, silver, black, pastel blue, etc. How about some bright greens or yellows to stand out and get your attention.
This is just my opinion, but if you are talking about your "kids" fitting nicely in your Scion then it's not what will attract a 20 something and Scion missed their mark.
The xB, nice for me to get in and out of, nice room, good visibility driving, but I'm not what Scion marketing was looking for in a customer.
Just look at the colors they offer! A younger buyer wants some flashy colors, not white, silver, black, pastel blue, etc. How about some bright greens or yellows to stand out and get your attention.
TartanJack, I'm with you on the mishandling of the brand and our xB, but I find myself completely agreeing the the C&D author here. It's not just that Toyota mishandled their new brand; it's that the brand has no substance, no mission, even no ambition. Can any of us disagree? I cannot! What is Scion?
just another name for Toyota, i had read somewhere that all Scions sold in the US go in the books as Corrollas, officially, Toyota doesnt sell Scions. PADOT has recently changed my registration, where it used to say Scion xB it now says Toyota.
Ive always stated that they have hardly made any attempt to market the Scion brand, and usually when they do it's to us, people that already have a Scion.
I totally agree in the beginning I feel scions where inexpensive cars made for the younger generation to buy and have fun with. What was an xb when they first came out 13000 Brand new? Kids parents or younger adults could afford it. It was definitely something not many older people wanted. The tc was a bargain for a sports car as well and it still is rather cheap for what you get compared to other cars but th price has gone up quite a bit. Now let's check out the IQ I think it's a cool little funky car but when I go to the dealership and see a 16-17 thousand dollar price tag I scratch my head. Seems to high for me. Scion was about affordability for the younger age. I look for the younger age. What you said about colors is right. I loved the xb first gen. The release were awesome. It took mr quite some time to accept the 2nd gen n fall n love. N to commit to buying one all it took was me to see the first add of that bright off the wall color with a nice body kit and some great looking rims. I was researching them after I saw the rs 8.0 and a week or two later I had one in my driveway. Anyway I think scion has changed dramatically as a car company and once they became hot n started selling a lot of cars. It was time for them to jack up prices and make the cars looks reach out to more than just the younger generation. And to me that was a big mistake.Just look at the colors they offer! A younger buyer wants some flashy colors, not white, silver, black, pastel blue, etc. How about some bright greens or yellows to stand out and get your attention.
I've been an advocate on brighter, bolder colors for years- ever since i got mine and joined this forum. I pushed for the red and Voodoo Blue publicly back in 08, but as STOCK colors and not just RS ones. I also think they need a yellow (like used on the new tCs), bright red, brigher blue, a bold green-green, and then a rotating very bright hue as a stock 1 or 2 year run color (orange, monster-green, pink, etc).
The colors should be like the bold late 40s Woodies and 60s/70s muscle car bright bold hues.
My point with the kids was the size and practicality in a, relatively small package that is also a BLAST to drive is missing from any existent Scion or xB ads, but that IS the essence of the xB.
It is a vehicle for the person who wants to haul their gear and have fun while doing it. For some, that is bikes or boards. for others it is stereo equipment, for others it is family. The 72 cubic feet (seats flat) cargo bay in the small package was a HUGE selling point to me.
Now, on the brand name, at one point EVERY brand was new and "made-up," even the greats. They had to create that heritage through time. Ford started making mass-produced cars when no one knew what a Ford was. Then, they created the top-end "Lincoln" line originally linked tightly to the Ford name to give it relevance. Mercury was created in the 1940s as a mid-model between the low-end Ford and top-end Lincoln, as a completely board-room decision to fight GMs segmented and "stepped" brand set-up. The Mercury legacy and "Crazy about a Mercury" mythos came about through neat cars and performance backing them up.
All three of the core "Ford Family" brands were made-up at some point and had to CREATE a legacy, heritage, and mythos around them. Later, they all became the stuff of song and "coolness" at points in history (see "Hot Rod Lincoln" for example). The Mercury brand died of irrelevance once the geniuses at Ford made them simply rebadged and SLIGHTLY refaced versions of Fords at a higher price. Also, the price-points of both the Ford and Lincoln lines overlapped Mercury entirely They were no longer different enough to justify the separate brand.
The same thing happened to Oldsmobile and Pontiac and, finally, Saturn at GM. All three built their brands on unique and interesting vehicles and ended up selling rebadged vehicles to close to what Chevy sold without enough "uniqueness" to make them stand out for the buyer.
My issue is that Toyota never managed to be consistent and work with enthusiasts to make the brand differentiated enough to stand alone on its own mythos.
Lack of dealer incentives didn't help much either . . .
Many didn't push Scions or care much about them as other than the occasional extra sell.
I will say this, if it wasn't for the xB, I wouldn't have gotten a Toyota. If no xB, I wouldn't have appreciated Toyota and will NOW consider one in the future. The "opening the Toyota family to new customers" worked on me.
The colors should be like the bold late 40s Woodies and 60s/70s muscle car bright bold hues.
My point with the kids was the size and practicality in a, relatively small package that is also a BLAST to drive is missing from any existent Scion or xB ads, but that IS the essence of the xB.
It is a vehicle for the person who wants to haul their gear and have fun while doing it. For some, that is bikes or boards. for others it is stereo equipment, for others it is family. The 72 cubic feet (seats flat) cargo bay in the small package was a HUGE selling point to me.
Now, on the brand name, at one point EVERY brand was new and "made-up," even the greats. They had to create that heritage through time. Ford started making mass-produced cars when no one knew what a Ford was. Then, they created the top-end "Lincoln" line originally linked tightly to the Ford name to give it relevance. Mercury was created in the 1940s as a mid-model between the low-end Ford and top-end Lincoln, as a completely board-room decision to fight GMs segmented and "stepped" brand set-up. The Mercury legacy and "Crazy about a Mercury" mythos came about through neat cars and performance backing them up.
All three of the core "Ford Family" brands were made-up at some point and had to CREATE a legacy, heritage, and mythos around them. Later, they all became the stuff of song and "coolness" at points in history (see "Hot Rod Lincoln" for example). The Mercury brand died of irrelevance once the geniuses at Ford made them simply rebadged and SLIGHTLY refaced versions of Fords at a higher price. Also, the price-points of both the Ford and Lincoln lines overlapped Mercury entirely They were no longer different enough to justify the separate brand.
The same thing happened to Oldsmobile and Pontiac and, finally, Saturn at GM. All three built their brands on unique and interesting vehicles and ended up selling rebadged vehicles to close to what Chevy sold without enough "uniqueness" to make them stand out for the buyer.
My issue is that Toyota never managed to be consistent and work with enthusiasts to make the brand differentiated enough to stand alone on its own mythos.
Lack of dealer incentives didn't help much either . . .
Many didn't push Scions or care much about them as other than the occasional extra sell.
I will say this, if it wasn't for the xB, I wouldn't have gotten a Toyota. If no xB, I wouldn't have appreciated Toyota and will NOW consider one in the future. The "opening the Toyota family to new customers" worked on me.
one other thing about the colors. when i was new to the brand and buying my 1st xB back in 08, i assumed all those cool gen 1 colors were available to me, i was oblivious to what an "RS" was. the stock colors have always been boring, black, white and what i refer to as car color, with the exception of the Teal (which didnt appeal to me at all)
Unfortunately, yep.
More bright colors should be STOCK!
More bright colors should be STOCK!
Unfortunately, yep.
More bright colors should be STOCK!
Absolutely true. Unfortunately this issue is not just at Scion, but across the whole industry. The car buyer is drowning in a sea of shades of silver, tans and earth tones.
Out of boredom one day, I sat on my porch and made a list of Silver or Shades of Silver cars that went buy. It was shockingly high, about 60%. Try it for yourself the next time you're out on the road. (Include shades of Brown while you're at it.)
I give credit to Scion in choosing some great colors for the Release Series. It's a shame that they didn't make the colors available to the entire lineup and make the Release Series more special in offering more content than just leather seats or a funky fabric design.
Your telling me, in the IT dept of my work (me and 2 others) all are silver. and I find that just a bit boring and... somewhat depressing. not much I can do about it though... oh well.
If you stop to notice, it isn't just the auto industry. I often look at new subdivisions in my area (there are MANY) and most every house is white or some shade of tan/sepia/beige. I attribute that to the advent of vinyl siding. You can't change the color of your house every few years with a coat of paint so they make colors that will appeal (at least not offend) anyone.
Don't you think the same is probably true of the auto industry? Why be stuck with a few bold colors that are harder to sell, when you can always get someone to buy an unobtrusive silver/black/white?
Not that I am saying it's ok though! I like bold colors or colors that are different from most other cars. I love my super red rs6! :cheers:
Don't you think the same is probably true of the auto industry? Why be stuck with a few bold colors that are harder to sell, when you can always get someone to buy an unobtrusive silver/black/white?
Not that I am saying it's ok though! I like bold colors or colors that are different from most other cars. I love my super red rs6! :cheers:
So true. We just finished residing our house from the standard boring brown to a English Wedgewood (Blue). So much better.If you stop to notice, it isn't just the auto industry. I often look at new subdivisions in my area (there are MANY) and most every house is white or some shade of tan/sepia/beige. I attribute that to the advent of vinyl siding. You can't change the color of your house every few years with a coat of paint so they make colors that will appeal (at least not offend) anyone.
Don't you think the same is probably true of the auto industry? Why be stuck with a few bold colors that are harder to sell, when you can always get someone to buy an unobtrusive silver/black/white?
Not that I am saying it's ok though! I like bold colors or colors that are different from most other cars. I love my super red rs6! :cheers:
My neighbor liked the result so much, that he is currently doing his house in a Green/Gray color. Vinyl siding has come out with some great colors in the last 10 years.
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My house is brick with red shutters . . .
I like color.
(The silver was the best option for my original plan to repaint mine green or blue. But, the economy and job issues intervened and I can't afford my planned paint. I figured the exposed silver parts in the engine bay would just look "metal" . . . )
I like color.
(The silver was the best option for my original plan to repaint mine green or blue. But, the economy and job issues intervened and I can't afford my planned paint. I figured the exposed silver parts in the engine bay would just look "metal" . . . )
I think your situation is a little different though. As you have stated several times in various threads, colors like silver and white make great base colors for modding. (Painters don't generally start with a neon green canvas. They use white.) You don't drive just a plain silver xB. You've added reds and blacks and it looks great and unique.My house is brick with red shutters . . .
I like color.
(The silver was the best option for my original plan to repaint mine green or blue. But, the economy and job issues intervened and I can't afford my planned paint. I figured the exposed silver parts in the engine bay would just look "metal" . . . )
That is one thing about my red rs, there aren't a lot of colors that I think would look good as accent colors - mostly black/gray or white.
Sorry if I've gotten us off topic.
Hehehehe
I started it . . .
(With color issue)
Honestly, though, I've grown to appreciate most of the xB shades. The Brown (Blackberry Crush) is my least, as I just don't like brown- others, including my in-laws love it.
My favorite xB colors are Stingray, Red, and Voodoo.
Yet, a Teal or Stingray would be ideal bases for a wood xB Woody! (Maybe, Blackberry Crush or Dark Charcoal (BSP) too.)
I started it . . .
(With color issue)
Honestly, though, I've grown to appreciate most of the xB shades. The Brown (Blackberry Crush) is my least, as I just don't like brown- others, including my in-laws love it.
My favorite xB colors are Stingray, Red, and Voodoo.
Yet, a Teal or Stingray would be ideal bases for a wood xB Woody! (Maybe, Blackberry Crush or Dark Charcoal (BSP) too.)
Absolutely true. Unfortunately this issue is not just at Scion, but across the whole industry. The car buyer is drowning in a sea of shades of silver, tans and earth tones.
Out of boredom one day, I sat on my porch and made a list of Silver or Shades of Silver cars that went buy. It was shockingly high, about 60%. Try it for yourself the next time you're out on the road. (Include shades of Brown while you're at it.)
what the girlfriend and i refer to as "car color", we also include white.
you must really dislike the army rock TJ...
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