[JonCordova]

TartanJack, I'm with you on the mishandling of the brand and our xB, but I find myself completely agreeing the the C&D author here. It's not just that Toyota mishandled their new brand; it's that the brand has no substance, no mission, even no ambition.

Scion is a brand conceived in a focus group.... It can claim no pedigree, no history. ...When you buy a Scion, you buy into something akin to a second-year MBA’s class project on ways to penetrate the youth market....

Can any of us disagree? I cannot! What is Scion? Is it tuner cars or practical hatchbacks? Is it cheap college cars or a rear-wheel-drive import coupe? Is it the iQ microcar or the hulking SUV-like xB? Is it young people or old people? Nobody knows! Not even Toyota itself.

I'm sorry, but the balanced performance and sreaming-bargain price of our xB was just a happy accident, a fluke brought on by the implementation of the Camry's 4-cylinder in a re-skinned Toyota Matrix. We were lucky! But Scion itself is a meaningless brand, much like Saturn.

At the end of page 2, Robinson suggests "Scion" should be for cheap, basic Toyotas only, and I completely agree. Why buy an xB and not a Matrix? Or an xD and not a Yaris? Or a tC vs a Civic Si? An iQ vs a Smart ForTwo? $2000 cheaper pricetags and more interior space, in exchange for cheaper cabin quality. But instead Scion tried all this guerrilla marketing with SEMA tuner cars and club concerts. Wouldn't tuners rather tune a Lancer Evo or Civic Si?

...most in [the family car] segment wouldn't even THINK of looking at one unless one of us TELLS them to do so.

I guess I just agreed with you, but only the xD has the fuel economy to compete, and the Hondia Fit is a better car. I still blame Toyota's refusal to give the xB the 6-speed transmissions from the tC. Why should a Corolla Wagon get just 22/28MPG?

 

[JonCordova]

...the advent of vinyl siding. You can't change the color of your house every few years with a coat of paint so they make colors that will appeal (at least not offend) anyone.

Don't you think the same is probably true of the auto industry?...

Not that I am saying it's ok though! I like bold colors or colors that are different from most other cars.

Well, I disagree; it's not just the colors holding sales back. I see lots of black and silver Mazdas on the road, and for that matter, the teals and powder blues of the Camry and Sonata are very...safe, and those cars sell well.

Isn't it all just the cliche that plain-colored cars get less tickets?

My point with the kids was the size and practicality in a, relatively small package that is also a BLAST to drive is missing from any existent Scion or xB ads, but that IS the essence of the xB.
... The 72 cubic feet (seats flat) cargo bay in the small package was a HUGE selling point to me.

Me too, but that very trait is part of the reason the xB's time has passed. Customers are downsizing and car companies are shoving small cars out the door--

--That is, little tiny compact and subcompact cars like the Ford Focus and Chevy Sonic that all of a sudden have stunning luxurious interiors, light curb weights, 6-speeds, and 40MPG highway.

A new car has to look and feel fuel efficient, even though 40MPG or 50MPG can only save me $500 a year. MPGs are a feature, equal to headroom, legroom, and passing power. The xB just looks wrong: an SUV that isn't; a strange wagon. And then when you go look at the MPG, it's not that fuel efficient anyway.

I bought the xB as the ultimate autophobe, dividing headroom by purchase price multiplied by MPG. Now having become a raging gearhead, I got a stick shift xB, because no other car can match the xB's interior space and perky handling.

But I'm not most car buyers. It's not enough that our xB is so well balanced and so easy to live with. The xB and Scion itself need a stronger goal than just introducing a few new kids to Toyota.

For me, the elephant in the room is this question:

Why does the Kia Soul sell so well but the xB sells so poorly?

I have two answers: The short answer? Fuel Economy. 34MPG highway from 6-speed transmissions and a smaller engine that makes more horespower than a stock xB.

The long answer? Because Kia tries so hard. They're on a mission; Kia and Hyundai have been on a mission for the past five years to rise above their rental-car image. So the Kia Soul has a densely-featured interior with deeply integrated infotainment and a factory backup camera. That car looks and feels significant, well-appointed, and fuel efficient. Then look at our xB: it looks and feelsindustrial, plasticky, utilitarian, and blank! Blank as in "use it as a canvas," "roll your own in-dash GPS and subwoofers." Nothing wrong with that, except it's not the way many buyers shop. What, do they expect me to buy those weird "vortex generator" things to get better MPG?

Sorry, but I've found it galling that Toyota has treated the xB with such carelessness. The tC, FR-S, and iQ? Toyota seems to care more about those cars, so maybe Scion has a future, but there's still not enough focus.

 

[JonCordova]

I'm weird and have an odd hatred of sedans as "half-compromised" appliances.

Now that's eerie, because I was about to say: "I'm not most car buyers; if I were, sedans would not exist."

It's interesting, how the most obvious, simple car designs are just left in the dust by most buyers. Fundamentally, a wagon makes better use of cargo space and parking space than a sedan, but adds almost no cost or complexity. Fundamentally, a wagon should get better fuel economy and always has better handling than an equal SUV.

And yet the most advanced family cars today are SUVs and sedans, because that's where the research goes.

I like vehicles that do what they are designed for exceptionally well. ...The xB2 IS one of those, by any brand or name.

I'll agree to that.:cheers:

 

[JonCordova]

AWD...eeesh, an extra 4K and -%20 MPG

I agree. I drove my '08 through 5-6 inches of snow and didn't really wish for AWD. It would have been nice, but the car handled the weather just fine, and a drive tunnel would mess up legroom in the back.

But it is worth mentioning, because Toyota should have offered the option. The whole "monospec" thing just seems lazy on their part. I don't know why, but cars with convoluted trim lines sell well! Maybe it makes customers feel like their car is unique, and it masks the true price of the car.

But monospec isn't enough to make a brand, and neither is "haggle-free," which just prevents us from negotiating a better price. Haggle-free couldn't save Saturn.