not sure if this is the correct place to ask but here goes,'I recently (2/12) purchased a 2011 xb w/27k from a non Toypta dealer. My husband who is a Lexus master mechanic took it in to to his shop for my 30k check-up. He noticed what appeared to be the beginning of poor wear on the rear tires. Upon putting it on the alignment machine he found the specs for the rear to be way off. He says there is no adjustments that can be made to the rear, that its set at the factory so he can only repair it by buying aftermarket shims and playing around till its satisfactory. I contacted the dealership where I purchased it and of course there first response is "warranty does not cover alignments!" Anyone else having rear wheel wear problems? BTW, this is a TRD setup with the 19"s. Do you think I have any recourse with the selling dealer or Toyota? This is my 1st new(er) car purchase from a dealer. We've always bought old cars with over 100k on them so warranties were never in play. I purposely bought newer so hubby wouldn't have to work after on it for many years(trying to give the old man a break!)
rear alignment problem
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From my understanding there is absolutely nothing that can be done with shims. The xB axle is a one piece design with the bearings being pressed in. either the axle is straight or it isn't or the bearing were pressed in correctly or they weren't. This is how it was explained to me during the repair of my 11s rear end. The new axle they replaced was off less then the width of a nickel. I had to wait for another new axle and then the bearings were on backorder...so if your axle is out of tolerance it should be fixable under warranty.
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i agree with the assessment of the axle beam design. either it's straight or it isn't. you will be hard pressed to convince the dealer or toyota of any factory defect with 27k. it would be the only way to get them to replace it. i had alignment problems when i first purchased my box, but didn't realize it until it showed in tire wear. by that time mileage and time of ownership gave them a thousand excuses as to the cause. i believe it was factory defect or the result of a test drive before i bought the vehicle. i planned to go with shims that would have corrected the problem and the dealership agreed because the rear tires are just pulled along by the front. they wanted to charge over $400 to install. i filed a claim under comprehensive and worked with the collision center and my insurance to have the axle beam replaced. instead of shims i got a new axle beam for the cost of my deductible. if you can convince your hubby to install the $20 set of moog shims during a realignment you should be good. you won't have to bother him about issue again.
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amazingly I rec'd a return phone call form the selling dealership and they have agreed to work on the rear alignment. I had to explain to him about the shims since this is a chrysler dealership not a toyota, but after speaking to his shop foreman he felt that they can get the job done. I'll be taking it in on Wed.so I'll let you know the outcome. I want to see the final specs when they are finished/
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they should provided with a printout when completed. i assume they gave you one when they discovered it out specs. they will need to disconnect the rear wheel speed sensors and remove the rear hub assemblies to install the shims. since they are a non-toyota shop, i would recommend getting the torque specs for the hub bolts from your husband and passing it on. they will need to be careful when handling those speed sensors. a toyota install guide would be extremely helpful.
there's alot of knowledgeable members on this site; never hesitate to ask questions about your xB2 here. the experiences of 1 will help many!!!
let us know how it goes!
there's alot of knowledgeable members on this site; never hesitate to ask questions about your xB2 here. the experiences of 1 will help many!!!
let us know how it goes!
You haven't said anything about aftermarket modifications (different springs or whatever). Has the suspension been modified in any way from OE?
Hey guys, I've been a member at other Scoin forums for quite some time, but I had to join this forum to respond to this thread.
I'm a certified Toyota tech, and I drive an '09 xB. It's long overdue, but I'm in the process of playing with my rear alignment right now. I've worn out a couple of sets of tires(my last set were Michelins), and now it's time to fix it since I'm about to put another set of Michelins on.
My rear alignment was perfect when I bought mine, new in '08. All that changed when I installed Hotchkis lowering springs. Now, I've got about .8 deg of total toe in the rear. If you know anything about alignments, that's a ton. As it is, my xB wears the rear tires out before it does front.
I specialize in steering & suspension, tires, and alignments. In my experience, these rear torsion beams are almost never defective...unless the car has been wrecked. The alignment tech has to make sure to pull the car onto the alignment rack perfectly straight. About a 20ft straight is ideal, and most guys won't(or can't due to space constraints) make the effort to do that. This causes false alignment readings as the suspension can be in a bind.
Basically, when lowered, the beam pivots upward. This causes the factory negative camber to become positive toe. Replacing the beam will rarely fix the problem, and it WILL NOT fix it if you've got lowering springs.
At our dealer, we don't deal with rear shims, but I'm trying to find out for sure which ones fit. I really don't want to tear it apart on my day off and find out the shims I've got won't work.
I'm a certified Toyota tech, and I drive an '09 xB. It's long overdue, but I'm in the process of playing with my rear alignment right now. I've worn out a couple of sets of tires(my last set were Michelins), and now it's time to fix it since I'm about to put another set of Michelins on.
My rear alignment was perfect when I bought mine, new in '08. All that changed when I installed Hotchkis lowering springs. Now, I've got about .8 deg of total toe in the rear. If you know anything about alignments, that's a ton. As it is, my xB wears the rear tires out before it does front.
I specialize in steering & suspension, tires, and alignments. In my experience, these rear torsion beams are almost never defective...unless the car has been wrecked. The alignment tech has to make sure to pull the car onto the alignment rack perfectly straight. About a 20ft straight is ideal, and most guys won't(or can't due to space constraints) make the effort to do that. This causes false alignment readings as the suspension can be in a bind.
Basically, when lowered, the beam pivots upward. This causes the factory negative camber to become positive toe. Replacing the beam will rarely fix the problem, and it WILL NOT fix it if you've got lowering springs.
At our dealer, we don't deal with rear shims, but I'm trying to find out for sure which ones fit. I really don't want to tear it apart on my day off and find out the shims I've got won't work.
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thank you for chiming in xbones. your knowledge and experience is most welcome.
you stated lowering the box creates positive toe. i assume that this would be within an acceptable range because trd makes lowering springs specifically for our vehicle. lowering the box with trd springs should not throw it outside of the "green".
i'm no expert, it's just how i perceive it with my limited knowledge.
i have never tried the shim kits, but thru some research i discovered the moog kit would be the "best shot" at correcting this issue. indeed, it will take some level of "trial and error", "back and forth" when installing these shims. i can see why a dealership would not chose to invest that kind of time and effort with no guaranteed outcome. not to mention to tie up an alignment rack for who knows how long.
personally, i would be willing to give a shot if i hadn't got a new beam. my service director was willing to work with me and together i'm confident that we would have figured it out.
my axle beam was out specs before i lowered my box. i had lowering springs installed with the new beam and everything was tight. can't seem to locate that printout at the moment. i did have an alignment check in jan 2012 before a road trip. all "green" on nf210 springs. (see attach)
this thread started with an xB2 rear being out of specs lowered on trd springs. i'm confident we can come together and solve this issue for our fellow forum member. and have that solution available to others.
Attachments
as a follow-up ,I had my Scion's rear re-aligned at the non-toyota dealership on Wed. Although it was a five hour wait (supposedly the shims took 2 hours to get there) I rec'd a before and after printout of the alignment and it is within the proper specs now.. I was perfectly happy until I read your replies. Now I have to worry about the bolt torque and the tire sensor being damaged, Guess I'll give it to hubby to double check everything. Thanks everybody!
I don't have a printout of mine in front of me. I threw mine on my ancient Hunter machine right after it was calibrated. I had to tweak the front after a nasty pothole. Yeah yeah something bent probably but it was only .20 out so easier to put the toe back in.
My rear was like .10 and .23 L/R respectively. I'm on TRD springs. My wheel has always been a tad off due to the thrust angle being out of whack and it kinda drives me nuts. But it doesn't seem to be enough to wear tires. I'll check it from time to time to see if it changes as metal fatigues or parts wear to see if it's worth doing shims.
My rear was like .10 and .23 L/R respectively. I'm on TRD springs. My wheel has always been a tad off due to the thrust angle being out of whack and it kinda drives me nuts. But it doesn't seem to be enough to wear tires. I'll check it from time to time to see if it changes as metal fatigues or parts wear to see if it's worth doing shims.
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Now the shims are in there, I'm curious if they will effect brake pad wear.
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conventional wisdom and simple laws of physics couldn't possibly connect adverse brake pad wear with alignment shims. brake pad wear is consistent with the rotational axis of the rotors not the shims. let her enjoy her success. she just manage to avoid a $2000 repair in exchange for 5 hrs of her time. congrats a1coolmom8)
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Do you not know how the rotational axis of the rotors react with the angle of the hub and calipers themselves? Obviously not, otherwise you wouldn't have made that statement.
If you space the hub, and rotational axis of the rotors thereof, the way the brake pads engage the rotor will be affected.
Not sure if you have disassembled the rear of the xB2, but I have.
If you space the hub in any way, you will have to space the caliper as well. The hub, and inherently rotational axis of the rotors, are mounted on the same plane as the calipers. If any of these corresponding mounting points differ, abnormal brake wear will occur.
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i understand your concern and i see your point. i also apologize if my reply is perceived offensive. the brake calipers are self-adjusting by the use of the guide pins. when the piston engages the inner pad, the caliper will be pulled out and line-up with the rotor. if the shims are thicker than the travel of the guide pin, braking would be adversely affected. i have a set of these shim kits that i never used. they are alot thinner than the guide pin travel. now if the plane of the pads and the plane of the rotor are not exactly parellel, the pads will wear to parellel as long as the rotor is turning true. i believe this is an acceptable alternative to replacing the axle beam. her camber and toe is within specs. that wheel will turn true as soon as the pads wear parellel to the rotor. you are absolutely correct, the hubs will be pushed out of the normal position, the slight thickness of the shim. this could possibly lead to that inner pad wearing slightly faster than the outer. the difference would be minor and within acceptable limits.
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