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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HI THE SCION 2009 XB IS A HIGH PERFORMANCE RACE CAR WITH A BOX ON IT --OR MY GO CART ON STERIODS :

THE FOUR CYLINDER 16 VALVE OVERHEAD CAM ENGINE TACHS OUT AT
6',500 rpms
FOUR DISC BRAKES AND WEIGHTS 3200 LBS
MC PEARSON FRONT SUSPENSION--WITH ELECTRONIC STABILIZATION
BODY CONTROL--NO SWAY ! VERTICAL REAR SHOCKS
CLUCHLESS STICK SHIFT AND OR AUTOMATIC TRANS--SHIFT IF YOU
DESIRE TO
FRONT WHEEL DRIVE--FOR SOME OF THE BEST CORNERING IMAGINABLE
INTERESTING LOOK
QUICK AND 28-33 MPG ON THE HIGHWAY
VERY SAFE VEHICLE --IN CRASH TESTS
GOOD RESALE VALUE
THE SAME ENGINE AS THE CARIOLLA-GOOD FOR 250-300 THOUSAND TROUBLE FREE MILES
A GOOD DEAL OF ROOM INSIDE--FOR STUFF !
16 INCH WIDE TIRES

I OWNED A 1965 PORSCHE 356 CONVERT FOR 7 YEARS --AN THE
SCION IS DAM CLOSE TO BEING JUST AS MUCH FUN TO OWN AS THAT CAR -THAT NOW SELLS FOR 80-90 THOUSAND DOLLARS RESTORED--

JUST MY .02 CENTS--BUT YOU GET THE IDEA-----TONY
 

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So it's safe to say you like your xB?
 

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reading that made my head hurt. cruise control activated. why do people type in all caps?
 

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Sovereign said:
reading that made my head hurt. cruise control activated. why do people type in all caps?
Broken keypad? Maybe the guy's just bubbling over with excitement?

Yes, it was a tough read.

Go-cart on steroids!!! I love that one...
 

· Royal Floor Sweeper
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Sovereign said:
reading that made my head hurt. cruise control activated. why do people type in all caps?
And some use none . . .
;)

:rofl:
 

· Royal Floor Sweeper
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tony0707 said:
HI THE SCION 2009 XB IS A HIGH PERFORMANCE RACE CAR WITH A BOX ON IT --OR MY GO CART ON STERIODS :

THE FOUR CYLINDER 16 VALVE OVERHEAD CAM ENGINE TACHS OUT AT
6',500 rpms
FOUR DISC BRAKES AND WEIGHTS 3200 LBS
MC PEARSON FRONT SUSPENSION--WITH ELECTRONIC STABILIZATION
BODY CONTROL--NO SWAY ! VERTICAL REAR SHOCKS
CLUCHLESS STICK SHIFT AND OR AUTOMATIC TRANS--SHIFT IF YOU
DESIRE TO
FRONT WHEEL DRIVE--FOR SOME OF THE BEST CORNERING IMAGINABLE
INTERESTING LOOK
QUICK AND 28-33 MPG ON THE HIGHWAY
VERY SAFE VEHICLE --IN CRASH TESTS
GOOD RESALE VALUE
THE SAME ENGINE AS THE CARIOLLA-GOOD FOR 250-300 THOUSAND TROUBLE FREE MILES
A GOOD DEAL OF ROOM INSIDE--FOR STUFF !
16 INCH WIDE TIRES

I OWNED A 1965 PORSCHE 356 CONVERT FOR 7 YEARS --AN THE
SCION IS DAM CLOSE TO BEING JUST AS MUCH FUN TO OWN AS THAT CAR -THAT NOW SELLS FOR 80-90 THOUSAND DOLLARS RESTORED--

JUST MY .02 CENTS--BUT YOU GET THE IDEA-----TONY
Agreed.
That's why I call it an "Industrial SportsBox" . . .

My "other ride" is a 90 Miata and the 365 is one of my "don't have" favorite cars of all time . . .
I'm a tad jealous.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
hi of coarse SCION is very high performance---an off shoot of TOYOTA --and TOYOTA races in every aspect of racing there is !! TOYOTA is directly responsible for NASCAR reorganizing the way there race shops are set up--- TOYOTA has individual divisions for there racing ----which NASCARS race shops are now copying -since TOYOTA has been racing in NASCAR ( a big NASCAR fan )----TONY
 

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Toyota is in Nascar/NHRA in name only. Any Toyota parts in those engines? Nascar's Car of Tomorrow that every team uses for racing is based on a Chevy body.

Toyota did engineer a race part that they put in some Toyota's and Lexis cars, it's call a "gas pedal". :lol:

You get a lot of bang for your buck with the xB, just wouldn't go so far as to say it's "high" performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
hey SCION

what is it about the race proven features i listed at the beginning of this thread that you do not understand- suspension-brakes and engine --all developed from race car proven technology--race car performance is "HIGH" performance the way i see it
 

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Some of the things you mentioned were race proven back in the l930/s. Four valves engines, SuperCharged, Overhead valves and so on were once "State of the Art", now it's common place.

Disc brakes on all four wheels? How about drilled/slotted rotors? Carbon fiber brake pads? This is the stuff today that is classified "High Performance".

Macpherson front suspension? Had that on my l971 Super Beetle!!!

Clutchless stick shift, sorry, VW had that in mass production back in the last century.

The xB is a fine car, I like mine, just don't believe that it's a "High" performance machine, more like the "Trickle" down effect.

What I do understand is that if you drive this car like a race car, you bought the wrong car!

Can you say, HIGH CENTER OF GRAVITY!


Happy 4th to all!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
hey scion
any time i can compare the performance of a 2009 SCION ---to the 1965 porsche i owned for 7 years - ( the best handling car i ever owned ) i truly consider the car a high performance ride--derived from a history of race technology--not necessarily 2010 race technology
we can agree to disagree - this car has amazing driving qualities--especially for its price very happy with my purchase TONY
 

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I see where both are coming from . . .
The xB isn't "cutting edge" modern technology, out-of-the-box. But, it can easily be "upgraded" to WRX levels fairly easily (suspension w/ uprated performance sways, front strut brace, and springs and shock/struts or coilovers, and power w/ a simple turbo) and w/o a gigantic cash outlay. Most of the cost would be the blower.

What Tony (name assumed) is getting at is this:
Compared to most similarly priced (new) vehicles, the xB is WAY above expectation. The handling isn't far off "real" sports car levels, even w/ the stock suspension of NO rear sway, mediocre springs, and rather hard tires. That is what shocked me when I drove the xB for the first time, and I'm "used to" a well-set up and corner balanced 90 Miata (a "real" sports car by any definition).
The xB "SHOULD" handle like a top-heavy econo-car. But, it doesn't.
The acceleration is in the mid-8s 0-60, the same as a Miata and not bad for under $30,000- not to mention actually being closer to $16,000-17,000.

So, if your comparing the xB to a "supercar" like a Lambo, Ferrari, Spyker or even a modern Porsche, there is NO WAY it could be comparable for well under $20,000. Those are $60,000-$500,000 If compared to a more "moderate" priced sports car like a Boxter, S2000, Miata, and several no longer for sale, the xB is closer.
Now . . . compared to a "classic" sports car, like a 365, early 911, MGB, Healey (big-6, 100, or Sprite), Triumph TR (any number), up to the first and second gen Miatas (and contemporary competitors), the xB can "hold its own" for a vehicle not DESIGNED to be a "sports car."
Now, looking at the PRICE range, the xB is remarkable for what you get.
I do think the rear sway should be standard, as should the strut bar. I understand the "softer" springs (for a smoother ride), even if I would prefer the TRD ones as standard.

So, it depends what you are looking at when comparing the xB2 to a "high performance" car . . .
Compared to expensive, cutting edge technology, it isn't. The parts cost more than the entire xB.
Now, compared to the "seat of pants" experience, acceleration, braking, handling on mountain twisties, and THEN compare that to modern ROAD "performance" vehicles (not modern racing ones), the xB fairs VERY well. It is a sleeper in this regards.

As for the technology, . . .
The xB's performance is the result of Toyota's experience w/ racing related vehicles of the last 20-30 years. They have "perfected" the rather "industrial" architecture of the suspension to make it handle FAR better than it should. Most similar suspensions are rather sad in handling to OK. Toyota has made it rather remarkable.
My 90 Miata's suspension is FAR more "sophisticated" than the 09 xB's is, in regards to double wishbone, geometry, "classic" elements, et cetera. In short, the Miata's suspension of FAR more sophisticated than most realize, equal to a contemporary-vintage Porsche. As a result, the Miata is a "benchmark" for sports-car handling for the last 21 years and 3 generations.

By comparison, the xB2 gets handling that isn't far of (I DO have a 90 Miata and 09 xB), while using a far more "industrial" and simple suspension design. Toyota has RACED the same basic suspension on our xBs on Celicas, Corollas, MR2s, and related models, and even their WRC Corollas (abet modified for AWD), in many classes and organizations for many, many years (decades). All the while, perfecting it and making it FAR more than it should have been in theory.

Only Toyota could or would even bother to make a front-Macpherson struts/Rear I-Beam suspension into a "sports car" suspension that is comparable in performance to double-wishbone A-arms. Yet, that is what we have on our xBs.
Therefore, I would argue that the xB2s suspension IS the result of racing technology being utilized in a production vehicle. Otherwise, the handling would be more mediocre to "OK," rather than even having this discussion . . . or a fair number of members of this forum even OWNING xB2s (I would have gotten the black Mazda RX-8, Mini Clubman, or a Mazda 3 -maybe the Mazdaspeed one- the xB impressed me that much).
 

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The term "High Performance" is what I was referring to. The Model "T" was high performance compared to the horse it replaced. Just because a car has 4 wheel disc doesn't mean "High Performance". Sure, it's high performance over non hydraulic braking they had years ago, but it's not high performance for today, it become more of the norm.

I sure hope that my cars 10-15 years from now don't have the same "high performance" my xB has today or I'll be disappointed.

As I said, the xB is a lot of car for the buck, but it's falls short of the "High Performance" reference.

Glad we can all have this type of discussion, hope it continues in the future.

Have a nice 4th.
 

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Dang, let's put it up for a vote....or end it! Great car, fun to drive, will get off the line quicker than many cars and most trucks...but "High Performance" NOT!

Brewski
 

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I don't know, I guess this kind of stuff is mucho relative. If I go back over the catalog of cars I've owned, my xB2 is a strong performer. Easily beats my AWD Eclipse with a frozen turbo :), and easily beats it with normal revs off the line (major torque) -- that xB2 can seriously jump. As far as brakes are concerned, they're the strongest I've ever had. As far as safety features, it's way ahead. From my viewpoint, I'd say mine is pretty darned high performance for an N/A car in even vaguely its price range, but I see the primary arbiter really as the price range.

As already said, it's a pretty great car for the money, and it provides a foundation that can be pretty easily improved upon -- sounds good to me :)!
 
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